Navy Cyber Policy Advisor
From Submarines to Cyber: Lessons on Cyber Warfare, Strategy, and Community with Chris Cleary
In a compelling episode of Gula Tech Adventures, Ron Gula interviews Chris Cleary—former Principal Cyber Advisor to the U.S. Department of the Navy and now VP of Global Cyber at ManTech. The conversation offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at cyber policy, military strategy, offensive and defensive cyber operations, and the evolution of the U.S. cyber workforce. Cleary draws from decades of experience across government, military, and industry, offering both practical insights and philosophical reflection on the challenges of modern cyber conflict.
This 1200-word blog summarizes the key takeaways from the discussion.
1. The Role of a Principal Cyber Advisor: Competing for Attention in the Pentagon
As the Navy’s Principal Cyber Advisor (PCA), Cleary wasn’t writing code or securing firewalls—he was advocating at the highest levels to ensure cyber received the same strategic consideration (and funding) as aircraft carriers and submarines.
Despite growing recognition of cyber as a warfighting domain, it still competes for attention against more “tangible” platforms. Cleary’s mission: ensure that cyber has a seat at the strategic table, not as support but as a critical capability in its own right.
2. Cyber Isn't Magic—It’s Operational Planning
Cleary regularly combats misconceptions that cyber operations are "magic." At a Def Con talk in 2011, he confronted hackers who bragged about their capabilities by walking them through the logistical realities of an actual cyber operation—tools, timing, targeting, and yes, pizza.
He made clear that offensive cyber isn’t just about coding skills. It's about intelligence gathering, infrastructure, logistics, planning, and teamwork. In the military, cyber warriors operate under the same constraints—and disciplines—as traditional warfighters.
3. Defining “Cyber” Is Still a Work in Progress
One recurring theme is that the word "cyber" lacks universal definition. While Cleary points to formal doctrine like Joint Publication 3-12 (Cyberspace Operations), he notes that even within the Pentagon, there’s debate about what does or doesn’t fall under cyber.
As a man-made domain, cyberspace is often treated as a second-class citizen compared to land, sea, air, and space. But as connectivity spreads—from homes to war zones—it’s becoming just as fundamental.
4. Cyber Targets Can Be Civilian—and That’s a Problem
Cleary discussed how military cyber planners must think about civilian infrastructure. Companies like Microsoft, Google, and Amazon—because they support national defense—may be viewed as legitimate targets in a conflict. This creates both ethical and operational challenges.
Using the example of Volt Typhoon, a Chinese threat group targeting critical U.S. infrastructure, Cleary explained how adversaries are already preparing cyber weapons for strategic disruption—not necessarily destruction, but mass confusion.
5. The Submarine Analogy: When Unthinkable Becomes Standard Doctrine
To explain the evolution of cyber warfare, Cleary draws a powerful analogy to submarine warfare. In the 1920s, the U.S. Navy considered banning submarines for their “immoral” wartime conduct. But after Pearl Harbor, the U.S. executed unrestricted submarine warfare against Japan.
What changed? The stakes. The nature of war. And ultimately, the acceptance of new capabilities. Cyber may follow a similar trajectory—from hesitation to full integration into military doctrine.
6. What Counts as a Cyber Attack? Intent Matters
Not every intrusion is an “attack.” Cleary emphasized the importance of intention: is it espionage or sabotage? Is it designed to destroy, disable, or just observe?
He points to the Talinn Manual’s Rule 102, which defines a cyberattack as something intended to injure people or damage systems. By this standard, something like Stuxnet qualifies. But SolarWinds? Likely not.
Still, public discourse often misuses the term “cyber attack,” muddying both policy responses and public understanding.
7. Science Fiction as Strategic Forecasting
Cleary and Gula discussed the predictive power of fiction. Films like Live Free or Die Hard and novels like 2034 depict plausible cyber scenarios—from infrastructure shutdowns to strategic military deception.
While fictional, these stories help planners think ahead. Cleary praised Live Free or Die Hard for realistically portraying how cyber events could be chained together to distract from a primary objective—a tactic already seen in real-world operations.
8. Lessons from Ukraine and Israel: Cyber Before the Shooting Starts
Cleary warns against learning the wrong lessons from Ukraine. While physical warfare quickly overshadowed cyber actions, Ukrainian defenders had taken preemptive steps, limiting Russia’s digital impact.
Similarly, in Israel, cyber operations allegedly disabled surveillance and communications in the lead-up to Hamas’s kinetic attacks—demonstrating how non-kinetic actions can shape battlefield outcomes before the first bullet is fired.
9. Promoting the Cyber Workforce: The Rise of MCPA
Cleary now serves as National Chapter President of the Military Cyber Professionals Association (MCPA), a nonprofit formed to support the emerging community of military cyber operators.
Since the stand-up of U.S. Cyber Command in 2009, a new generation of cyber-focused officers and enlisted personnel has emerged. MCPA aims to be their professional home—offering networking, mentorship, and community, much like tailhook does for Navy aviators.
Anyone with ties to the military cyber community—uniformed or civilian—can apply to join at milcyber.org.
10. Cyber’s Future: The Next Offset
With China building ships at record pace and outmatching U.S. production capacity, Cleary sees cyber (along with AI and autonomy) as the "next offset"—the strategic counterbalance to conventional military disadvantage.
He emphasizes: “We're not going to build our way out of this problem.” The key will be leveraging technology to augment limited physical force with disproportionate effect—whether through deterrence, disruption, or denial.
Final Thoughts
Chris Cleary offers a unique voice in cyber strategy—equal parts operator, policy maker, and evangelist. Whether he’s advising the Secretary of the Navy or mentoring future cyber warriors, his message is clear:
Cyber is not magic. It’s not niche. It’s not optional. It’s warfighting. And if we don’t start treating it that way—culturally, politically, and strategically—we’re going to find ourselves behind in the next conflict, whether it's on a battlefield, in a data center, or in your daughter’s Netflix queue.
You can follow Chris Cleary on LinkedIn or learn more about MCPA at milcyber.org. Subscribe to Gula Tech Adventures on YouTube for more interviews like this.
By Ron Gula | President, Gula Tech Adventures